I've been travelling a hell of a lot myself, I just came back last April actually, and I find myself missing London when I'm away for a long time. But mainly I miss some people and the fact that you can find everything you want/need (that when I go to places like Zanzibar). "rain, the cold, brainless violence, depressing TV, the obsession with talentless celebrities" are the things, like Ginger, don't miss.

London used to have an amazing vibe, a smell of freedom overpowering that of the persistant rain, but it's almost all gone unfortunately. If New York still has that, I can see his point. Beside, in NY the weather is cold in winter and hot in summer, but you don't get rain and grey skies 355 days a year, which is what I find depressing. Violence: sure you get it everywhere, especially in big cities, but big cities in the UK (or at least London, for my experience) are getting scarier everyday, and when he says "brainless", makes me think about that kind of idiots stabbing people for the sake of filming it with their phone and sticking in on YouTube and similar unbelievable crap, which, I may be wrong here, is quite an English thing. Finally, I've seen English people on holiday going insane without their fix of Big Brother and the soaps, while Americans on holidays are normally quite happily enjoying themselves.

Having said all that, I love London and the UK because, being Italian, coming here opened my mind and the people I met here from all over the world showed me that places like Australia were not that far after all; I wouldn't have seen the world if I hadn't landed here first. I also watch Eastenders. But, at the cost to sound like the old fart I guess I am, this is by no means the London I fell in love with, and it breaks my heart.

Sorry about the rant, it's a topic I feel very deeply. I remember New York as the kind of multicultural heaven London used to be, and hope it's still like that. A bit of violence comes with it, but at least it's the traditional gang shooting, drug deal gone wrong, nutcase or family affair. Kids killing each other for fun it's bloody sad.

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[Heron]

I see your point on some of that, but I think perhaps you are with off with the violence thing - kids do mindless shit everywhere. You gotta remember that that sort of stuff doesn't get widely reported on outside of the country in which it happens.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE NYC, but anyone thinking much of the shit here doesn't travel...well they're wrong. Humans are humans are humans. Some of it may well be more prevalent here (the rain for sure, and the TV is probably worse here - not that theirs is great), but some of it is at least as bad in America (the celebrity worshipping I reckon is equal in many parts of America - they invented the celebrity remember? and the violence is awful in many parts of America - all kinds)

There are no doubt many reasons why New York is a better place to live than much of the UK, but the reasons for missing England that he stated mean that he would have been better moving to Auckland than New York.

Reasons I love NYC:

It's the most 'alive' city I have ever visited
Culture is everywhere
It's music scene is by far the best in the world
Great food - big portions
Your money goes further
Great places to spend it
All round huuuge choice - makes life more interesting
They have exciting monster attacks

They were the first ones that came to me, but I am sure there are more (for me).

I don't live in London, but have always loved visiting there. It's the most similar to New York that I have visited. It's interesting to see that you feel it has changed for the worse by some way. Are you sure or has your life just changed, or has the area of London where you live changed? I would have thought it would be hard for one of the world's largest cities to change so much in such a short space of time, but I could be wrong. Would be interesting to hear from other Laaandanaaars on that!

Anyway - good discussion

[Cristina M]

Definitely pleasant topic!

As I said, I hope New York hasn't changed that much on the topic of violence, but I do think London, especially the younger generation, got a lot worst. It's not much the kind or amount of violence, it's the lack of motive that scares me. It's just out of boredom. And I'm still convinced, even at the same temperature, NY is not eternally grey like here.

Sure, obviously my life has changed, hopefully we all change someway while growing up. But London has changed too. All those amazing places, landmarks for people like me and you, like the Astoria to mention the most notorious example, are shutting down to build bigger Tube stations, more offices and corporate fast food (and I love McDonalds, but don't we have enough?). Traditional pubs are struggling and closing down, especially after the smoking ban, and franchisings are taking over. Camden lost its alternative charme, and it's full of yobs, yuppies and more corporate franchisings, while the so-called "alternative" shops have prices higher than Prada because they're considered "touristic". Even Tower Records in Piccadilly has gone, I think it's a Carphone Warehouse now. Jesus, they took down Hammersmith Palais... What's left, bloody Big Ben and Buckingham Palace?? Great...

Celebrity wise, well, to be honest I never go looking for US celebrity news, but for what I remember their celeb pages are not filled with all the rejects from the 1482 series of Big Brother, and their main newspaper won't have EVERYDAY two pages about a cocaine addict ex girl band member, two about a womaniser toyboy reality show ex contestant widow and two about a big tits glamour girl and er so-called singer ex husband. And yes, I also read the Sun, mainly to have a laugh at Dear Deidre

C'mon londoners, get in, love this debate!

[Heron]

Yeah our newspapers are something else, but America invented Cribs - what is more celebrity obsessed than wanting to see inside their homes? (I gotta admit I love it though)

And yeah Camden is a bit of a joke on the whole. It's alternative-by-numbers.

Well I am sad to read what you report on London. I guess my city really is the greatest in England now

[Heron]

Oh I forgot to mention the violence - if I was bleeding to death on the pavement, I am not sure I would find any comfort in knowing that at least the money from my wallet was going to get spent.

Violence is wrong - full stop. Giving it some sense of purpose will only strengthen it's grip on the world.

One last thing - going back to the weather here in England, it's perhaps fitting to quote England's finest export - late, great Milli Vanilli - "blame it on the rain".

[Cristina M]

Would be nice to have a special feature on all the landmark music venues in London that don't exist anymore. I'm not the best person 'cause I only arrived in 1998, so I missed the glory days of the Marquee, the George and that place on the Shepherd's Bush Green (not sure what it was called). Could find witnesses though.

US celeb TV: do we wanna talk about Rock of Love - and the equally entertaining Charm School?? Still, even on Cribs celebrities have actually done something to earn that status (apart from Paris Hilton and Nicole Ritchie), but I normally know 1 or 2 out of ten contestants on UK celeb shows!

What's your city Mike? You never know, the US are too legally complicated...

[Cristina M]

It's amazing how you manage to fit Milli Vanilli in every topic. You must be their biggest fan. They should meet you and have your picture on their wall. But do you also have the (Milli Vanilli) moves??

Violence: obviously it is ALWAYS wrong. But if on top of all the muggers, rapists, crackheads and so on we also get kid gangs motivated by boredom, this is sure gonna be an even unsafer world... Plus, if you keep out of trouble and give them everything you've got you may have a chance. How do you get away when they just enjoy the killing itself? And HOW can anyone possibly enjoy taking a life and hurting others?? This is maybe the thing that scares me the most...

[Heron]

Originally Posted by Cristina M

Would be nice to have a special feature on all the landmark music venues in London that don't exist anymore. I'm not the best person 'cause I only arrived in 1998, so I missed the glory days of the Marquee, the George and that place on the Shepherd's Bush Green (not sure what it was called). Could find witnesses though.


US celeb TV: do we wanna talk about Rock of Love - and the equally entertaining Charm School?? Still, even on Cribs celebrities have actually done something to earn that status (apart from Paris Hilton and Nicole Ritchie), but I normally know 1 or 2 out of ten contestants on UK celeb shows!



What's your city Mike? You never know, the US are too legally complicated...

Manchester (the rainy city)

Oh and the guy from Nickelback didn't earn his status in my eyes. I saw him on Cribs - such a big cock must need a big house.

[Cristina M]

utd or city?

nickelback will never be up there with milli vanilli, however fred durst is even more useless to the world imho and im sure he also made it on cribs...!

[Heron]

Yeah him too.

United of course.